How did you get the idea or inspiration to make a film adaptation of Cardinal Dziwisz's story?

We got the idea even before the publication of the book. When I showed friends the first proofs of the book, they said it was invaluable. The cardinal related lots of important things we either had no idea of or only sensed, at the most. There had been no first-hand testimonies that would say: "Yes, this is what I saw, this is how it was.” The book contains no interpretations or guesses, only facts. It was met with enthusiastic acclaim, but also one indicating hunger for more: "This is not enough, we'd like to hear more.” The 240-page long book is naturally only a signal, only a starting point. Cardinal Dziwisz wrote a page in his diary every day for 40 years. Certainly, it included so many important things that some kind of Testimony II could be written. I had just finished making the mini-series Tajemnice Watykanu ("Secrets of the Vatican”) - a large TV production. I decided to talk the Cardinal into making a documentary, although partly dramatised. We wanted to expand some themes from the book, but also present things totally unknown to the public. There are lots of unknown facts.

Without giving away too much, I can only say that some of them are truly sensational.

What were your impressions of the film encounter with Cardinal Dziwisz?

I've known the Cardinal for more than ten years. It took us some effort to persuade him to tell us about those events. In the Vatican he was known as "the silent Stanisław." He was rather dry and terse when talking to journalists. However, from his first words spoken in the film, and we recorded some 30 hours of footage, the Cardinal speaks as if he had rehearsed the role for many months. Each word was well-thought-out. When talking about many events, he lost his reserve. You could see very strong emotions, especially when he was talking about the attempt to assassinate the Pope and about the Pope's last moments. The crew would leave the set with tears in their eyes. And now I have a huge problem with those 30 hours of footage. The film runs to one and a half hours, and the television version will comprise three 50-minute episodes.

What about the rest of it? It would be a terrible loss just to lock the remaining material somewhere in the archives. The Cracow curia will receive the complete material and will be able to use it in the future, for posterity.

Dramatised documentary - how did you arrive at this formula?

I probably know all the archive film materials on this subject that are available in the world, but the Cardinal's story reveals many themes from Karol Wojtyła's life that have never been photographed or filmed. That's why to film the story, we had to use dramatisation.

Did your previous Vatican experience help you work on Testimony?

If I hadn't had the long-time experience working in the Vatican and with its people, I'd never have dared to make this film. I first got to know those people in the mid-90s. I made a documentary about John Paul II's friendship with Jerzy Kluger, his Jewish friend from Wadowice. That's when I started permanent cooperation with the Vatican. I've been dealing with papal and Vatican issues for many years. I think I've earned a reputation as the Vatican's reliable partner. It's difficult to get in there, but once you've got their trust, it's hard to lose it.

It was trust that helped me open all the doors. An example? We gave the role of the second narrator, one who will epically link the Cardinal's comments, to Michael York, a Hollywood actor. But filming scenes with actors in the Church State is not allowed. I can't reveal all the details, but it's enough to say that thanks to good contacts and good will, we managed to get permission to film the scenes with Michael York in the Vatican. We took the camera everywhere we wanted to go - to St. Paul's Cathedral, to the Vatican Gardens. Once, we were shooting a scene with Michael York walking around in Raphael's Loggia and Pope Benedict XVI was working behind the door of the hall where our crew was set up. In another film that we were making in the Vatican in 2005, we needed to film scenes in the Sistine Chapel. They let us in with cameras and heavy equipment.

And you aren't even allowed to take a photo in the chapel! The Vatican in some sense authorized our film. The fact that the Vatican is the film's co-producer is the formal expression of its approval and good will. Good cooperation with the Vatican is my greatest capital now - both as a producer and a man.

Why did you choose Michael York for the role of the narrator?

We wanted to cast a well-known actor in the film - a star that would help us reach Western audiences. We didn't want to follow the convention of a Polish documentary. The BBC has worked out a formula of dramatised documentary with well-known actors, such as Peter Ustinov, as the narrator. It's a conscious manoeuvre to have a recognizable face to focus the audience's attention and make it easier to absorb the film's themes. At the same time, the film gains an international flavour and will find it easier to succeed on other markets. We took several names into consideration. Apart from Michael York - Mel Gibson, Sean Connery and Bob Hoskins. I sent the list with the four names to the Vatican, explaining that I had short-listed those candidates. I soon got the list back with one name underlined. That was the answer.

Was it difficult to work with a Hollywood star in the Vatican?

I must admit that at first we were afraid of how we would get along with a Hollywood star. But it was great. Michael turned out to be a wonderful man. Professional, totally dedicated, punctual. We agreed on twelve hours on the set and he was there at our disposal for twelve hours. No breaks for lunch in luxury restaurants. He would eat meals prepared for the whole crew with us. He doesn't show off as a star, he's a warm, modest man and has a great gift for languages on top of that. During work on Jesus of Nazareth, Zeffirelli taught him Italian, which helped us in our film. He knew very well where we were shooting and that he was the first actor ever to make a film in the Vatican. Michael made an enormous contribution to this picture. York is a Hollywood actor, but a Shakespearian one too. Having read the script, he sat down with screenplay writers and the director to discuss some changes in the text - he believed that rephrasing some lines would make it easier to understand for American viewers. The crew was enchanted by him. Michael was extremely excited by the meeting with the Cardinal. Thanks to this movie, he learned a lot about Karol Wojtyła. He's written to me recently that he would be glad to participate in any of my future projects.

And who's idea was Vangelis?

The idea to ask Vangelis to compose the film score came from Marek Szpendowski - a legendary figure, the organizer of the biggest concerts in Poland, and Michael York's agent in Europe. He suggested two composers: Vangelis and Ennio Morricone. Morricone composed the score for the movie Karol: A Man Who Became The Pope, so I didn't want to go down a trodden path and from the very beginning, opted for Vangelis. There are two composers in Testimony: apart from Vangelis, we also have Robert Janson, whose contribution to the score will be quite considerable. Janson is best known for Varius Manx, but he also composes symphonic music.

Who finances the film? Will Testimony pay its bills?

The film is financed by the producer, the TBA company, of which I am a co-owner. Based on our good cooperation on previous projects, we invited two companies to co-produce the film: Agora and New Cast. So it was all among friends - from the very beginning we decided against seeking credit lines and external financing.